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[战略战术导弹] 俄罗斯陆基战略武器──白杨-M/RS-24

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JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2011-9-30 11:14 | 显示全部楼层
haojiang77 发表于 2011-9-30 11:25 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 haojiang77 于 2011-9-30 11:26 编辑

俺的意见是这年头在发展重型液体蛋不太合适,毕竟不是当年的准备核大战的时代,像SS-N-23及其改进型的射程和投掷重量就行了。
要是真发展新一代重型液体蛋,俺的意见是马卡耶夫不是参与了罗斯M火箭研制了吗?那就以罗斯M的芯级为模块,开发一种既可以当洲际蛋也可以当运载火箭芯级用的的通用核心模块(类似安加拉)
纸飞机 发表于 2011-9-30 12:18 | 显示全部楼层
JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2011-9-30 11:14
嗯, 只要是JSC公司形式, 就可以看到设计局的研发项目和进展情况。

别指望了,化学自动化设计局的网站从来不介绍导弹用的发动机
JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2011-9-30 13:26 | 显示全部楼层
纸飞机 发表于 2011-9-30 12:18
别指望了,化学自动化设计局的网站从来不介绍导弹用的发动机

自动化设计局搞的氢燃料-超燃发动机如何了?

JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2011-9-30 13:31 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 JSTCVW09CD 于 2011-9-30 13:34 编辑
纸飞机 发表于 2011-9-30 12:18
别指望了,化学自动化设计局的网站从来不介绍导弹用的发动机

嗯,直接看到只有80年代的RD-0243的一点信息。 虽然是开放式联合股份公司制度了。


但是还是可以挖掘挖掘滴。
JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2011-9-30 13:44 | 显示全部楼层
haojiang77 发表于 2011-9-30 11:14
俺到觉得把SS-N-23改成路基型,到更有效,也能载7-10个弹头,体积也小,可以放到铁路机动
SS-N-23绝对 ...

本菜还是很佩服马克耶夫的持续改进能力滴。
JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2011-9-30 14:08 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 JSTCVW09CD 于 2011-9-30 14:09 编辑

http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20110317/163056088.html

===

介个,介个, 参考一下

首次发射失败的应该就是这个弹。


==
Russia to develop new ballistic missile system by 2013

-
Russian scientists will develop a new land-based intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) system by 2013, a leading missile designer said on Thursday.

"I cannot be specific about the details but new design solutions will significantly boost the fire control and communications components of the system," said Yury Solomonov, general designer at the Moscow Institute of Thermal Technology.

Solomonov, who designed Russia's Topol and Bulava ballistic missiles, said the new system would feature high survivability and enhanced striking capability.

Russia's Strategic Missile Forces reportedly have over 400 ICBMs, including 171 Topol (SS-25), 70 Topol-M (SS-27), and three RS-24 Yars missiles
JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2011-9-30 21:28 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 JSTCVW09CD 于 2011-9-30 21:30 编辑

http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20110929/167249196.html

==]
missile tipped with a newly designed warhead failed during the first test firing near Plesetsk in the north of Russia. Despite this setback in Russia's attempt to develop an asymmetrical response to the U.S. missile defense system in Europe, there is no doubt that Russia will do all it can to put its "Colt on the negotiating table" in the words of Russia's NATO representative Dmitry Rogozin.

First test of a prototype

Col. Alexei Zolotukhin, official spokesman for the Defense Ministry's Space Forces, said "representatives of industrial companies tested a missile prototype at the Plesetsk cosmodrome on September 27 as part of the latest missile R&D."
The test failed due to the collapse of the missile's first stage. It was fired from a mobile launcher at 11.08 a.m. Moscow time on September 28. On-site personnel lost contact with the missile almost instantly, and it was found eight kilometers from the launch site after 2 p.m.

"After the launch, the missile fell back down onto the territory of the cosmodrome. There were no casualties or damage," a military source told RIA Novosti.

Representatives of industrial companies in Plesetsk included experts from the Moscow Institute of Thermal Technology, the chief developer of solid-fuel strategic missiles (Topol, Yars and Bulava), a source from the industry reported.
What was it?
The tone of the initial reports on the incident suggest that competent sources regarded the crashed missile as something entirely new, not merely an old missile modified for the test
This has opened the floodgates of speculation. Was it the hypothetical Avangard system? The public learned about its existence earlier this year when Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov told the press: "[Deliveries] of the strategic missiles Topol-M, Yars and Avangard will be increased three-fold."
An analysis of the missile types mentioned by the minister suggests the following very tentative conclusions:
First, Avangard is most likely a system for the ground-based nuclear capability component. Second, like the other missiles mentioned above, it has some connection to the Institute of Thermal Technology.
This begs the question: why does Russia need two new solid-fuel missiles, not to mention from the same developer? The Soviet era is gone and the key words in the armed forces are saving, standardization and "base platforms." The Russian Strategic Forces have acquired such a platform only recently -the MIRVed Yars, which will replace the old Topol versions. Could Avangard be a highly upgraded version of Yars?
Getting back to the recent failure in Plesetsk, a RIA Novosti source from the Defense Ministry reported that the crashed missile was a RS-24 Yars equipped with a new type of warhead. He explained that "the new MIRV was designed to boost the missile's capacity of penetrating prospective missile defense systems."
The bus has left the station
This is most likely a fundamentally new warhead for strategic missiles. Yuri Solomonov, chief designer at the Institute of Thermal Technology, spoke about its completion last winter.
A standard MIRV includes the so-called post-boost vehicle, or bus, which is used to deliver nuclear warheads to targets according to the flight program.
Solomonov said this model had become a thing of the past and explained why the bus was gone: "The missile as an integral whole practically ceases to exist after the sustainer propulsion stage drops off."
The absence of a bus suggests success in developing tacking warheads. Apparently, now they separate all at once and deploy along with decoys in order to maneuver independently under the same flight programs.
The best defense is good offense
It is not so important what exactly crashed at Plesetsk - a completely new Avangard or the existing Yars with an upgraded warhead. Maybe, both assumptions are correct and Avangard is simply an upgraded version of Yars.
However, one thing is clear - the missile that crashed back into the taiga obviously plays a role in the Defense Ministry's plans for an asymmetrical response to the deployment of an American missile defense system in Europe.
The Russian government, alarmed by the initiatives of the Bush administration in the early 2000s, has never received sensible answers to its questions from the Obama team.
It is still unclear at what targets the European missile defense will be directed. NATO claims this system is not designed against Russia but is refusing to sign any legally binding agreements that would unequivocally guarantee Russia's security.
Therefore, until Moscow receives suitable guarantees, it will ensure the security of its nuclear forces by other means, notably offensive systems. One of them was tested in Plesetsk on Tuesday.
The views expressed in this article are the author's and may not necessarily represent those of RIA Novosti.
StarDreadnought 发表于 2011-9-30 23:11 | 显示全部楼层
JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2011-9-29 10:15
概率很大的一种可能:

先锋不是已经被SS-20用掉了么?
难道又要搞一个固体弹?苏联时期虽然型号多,但是分工还是很明确的。

g6-52l 发表于 2011-9-30 23:59 | 显示全部楼层
JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2011-9-30 13:26
自动化设计局搞的氢燃料-超燃发动机如何了?

冷战期间的诸多计划先不提,冷战结束20年来,美国NASA、空军、海军、DARPA在高超音速飞行的计划有十多个,每年都投入数亿美元的金钱,不同层次的试验和试飞也不知搞了多少。但是最成功的项目如X43、X51离实用还差了十万八千里远。你说毛子的这方面研究处于什么状态?
g6-52l 发表于 2011-10-1 00:03 | 显示全部楼层
东方红 发表于 2011-9-29 19:34
莫斯科热工所为了跟马卡耶夫设计局竞争,肯定会推出新的6-8弹头导弹,可能采用布拉瓦导弹的二三级与白杨M导 ...

SLBM对紧凑性有很严格的要求,有的型号甚至将第三级与荷载做在一起。“白杨M”与”圆锤“互换推进级是不靠谱的吧,最多在荷载方面通用一下。
g6-52l 发表于 2011-10-1 00:06 | 显示全部楼层
haojiang77 发表于 2011-9-30 11:25
俺的意见是这年头在发展重型液体蛋不太合适,毕竟不是当年的准备核大战的时代,像SS-N-23及其改进型的射程和 ...

战略导弹与运载火箭很久以前就分道扬镳了,用途不同,细节就不同。别的不说,液体战略导弹要求至少以月为单位将燃料存贮在体内,运载火箭则绝无这个要求。
JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2011-10-1 04:31 | 显示全部楼层
StarDreadnought 发表于 2011-9-30 23:11
先锋不是已经被SS-20用掉了么?
难道又要搞一个固体弹?苏联时期虽然型号多,但是分工还是很明确的。

...

以前的那个先锋是pioneer,


现在这个先锋是Vanguard。 不同的先锋。
JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2011-10-1 12:26 | 显示全部楼层
http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20110929/167249196.html

==
What was it?

The tone of the initial reports on the incident suggest that competent sources regarded the crashed missile as something entirely new, not merely an old missile modified for the test

This has opened the floodgates of speculation. Was it the hypothetical Avangard system? The public learned about its existence earlier this year when Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov told the press: "[Deliveries] of the strategic missiles Topol-M, Yars and Avangard will be increased three-fold."

An analysis of the missile types mentioned by the minister suggests the following very tentative conclusions:
First, Avangard is most likely a system for the ground-based nuclear capability component. Second, like the other missiles mentioned above, it has some connection to the Institute of Thermal Technology.

This begs the question: why does Russia need two new solid-fuel missiles, not to mention from the same developer? The Soviet era is gone and the key words in the armed forces are saving, standardization and "base platforms." The Russian Strategic Forces have acquired such a platform only recently -the MIRVed Yars, which will replace the old Topol versions. Could Avangard be a highly upgraded version of Yars?

Getting back to the recent failure in Plesetsk, a RIA Novosti source from the Defense Ministry reported that the crashed missile was a RS-24 Yars equipped with a new type of warhead. He explained that "the new MIRV was designed to boost the missile's capacity of penetrating prospective missile defense systems."

The bus has left the station

This is most likely a fundamentally new warhead for strategic missiles. Yuri Solomonov, chief designer at the Institute of Thermal Technology, spoke about its completion last winter.

A standard MIRV includes the so-called post-boost vehicle, or bus, which is used to deliver nuclear warheads to targets according to the flight program.

Solomonov said this model had become a thing of the past and explained why the bus was gone: "The missile as an integral whole practically ceases to exist after the sustainer propulsion stage drops off."

The absence of a bus suggests success in developing tacking warheads. Apparently, now they separate all at once and deploy along with decoys in order to maneuver independently under the same flight programs.

The best defense is good offense

It is not so important what exactly crashed at Plesetsk - a completely new Avangard or the existing Yars with an upgraded warhead. Maybe, both assumptions are correct and Avangard is simply an upgraded version of Yars.

However, one thing is clear - the missile that crashed back into the taiga obviously plays a role in the Defense Ministry's plans for an asymmetrical response to the deployment of an American missile defense system in Europe.
The Russian government, alarmed by the initiatives of the Bush administration in the early 2000s, has never received sensible answers to its questions from the Obama team.
It is still unclear at what targets the European missile defense will be directed. NATO claims this system is not designed against Russia but is refusing to sign any legally binding agreements that would unequivocally guarantee Russia's security.

Therefore, until Moscow receives suitable guarantees, it will ensure the security of its nuclear forces by other means, notably offensive systems. One of them was tested in Plesetsk on Tuesday.
StarDreadnought 发表于 2011-10-1 12:26 | 显示全部楼层
那不应该翻成前卫么。
 楼主| kktt 发表于 2011-10-2 09:26 | 显示全部楼层
【俄罗斯《消息报》9月29日报道】题:“先锋”核导弹坠落

俄最新洲际弹道导弹的秘密试验以失败告终。由于第一级火箭出现故障,导弹坠落在普列谢茨克发射场附近。负责研制“先锋”导弹的莫斯科热工技术研究所对此事未加评论。

“先锋”导弹是为替换PC-12“白杨”导弹而研制的,是2009年列装的PC-24“亚尔斯”导弹的改进型。

预计“先锋”导弹将装备自带推进器的战斗部,以突破防御系统。

国防部门的一位消息人士证实,新的战斗部适用于“白杨”、“亚尔斯”和新式“布拉瓦”海基导弹等莫斯科热工技术研究所研制的所有导弹。但未来只会在新式导弹上使用它,战略导弹部队的老式导弹将不再改装。

多年来,莫斯科热工技术研究所的最新设计都与失败如影随形。“布拉瓦”导弹新型固体燃料推进器的试验就以爆炸收场。“布拉瓦”在最初3次成功发射后,连续8次发射失败。

“布拉瓦”导弹的一系列问题令所罗门诺夫丢掉了所长的乌纱帽,导弹的各零件供应商也遭遇了一系列检查。此后,导弹连续4次试射成功。同时,“白杨-M”和“亚尔斯”导弹被认为是世界上最杰出的固体燃料弹道导弹。

【俄罗斯《共青团真理报》9月29日报道】题:新式导弹首次试射失败

俄罗斯的导弹设计师似乎从来都是厄运缠身:刚从新海基洲际弹道导弹“布拉瓦”试射失败的阴影中缓过神来,27日从阿尔汉格尔斯克州普列谢茨克发射场试射的新式洲际弹道导弹就又发生了意外。

但专家表示,将其称之为“全新导弹”并不准确,而可能是PC-24(“亚尔斯”)洲际弹道导弹的改进型。虽然国防部并未透露导弹型号,但懂行的人士对此毫不怀疑。

这不仅是因为该导弹是从移动发射装置上发射的。有传言称,“亚尔斯”导弹拥有强大的突防能力。而且,俄战略导弹部队司令部早就宣布研发可以“突破”任何反导系统的拦截。俄罗斯的能工巧匠似乎希望改进业已列装的“亚尔斯”导弹,添加核弹头,增加可使导弹超级强劲且不易遭到攻击的电子仪器。由于试射时第一级火箭出现故障,因此将在此处寻找事故原因。

俄导弹设计师的目的是通过强大的第一级火箭最大限度地加快飞行速度,以使部署地点日益接近俄边境的美国反导导弹无法击落始射阶段的“亚尔斯”导弹。

莫斯科热工技术研究所的一位设计师乐观地指出:“这项任务不属于尚未攻克难题的范畴。”另外,坠落于发射场数公里外的导弹使用的是固体燃料,因此发射失败并未导致燃料外泄。


【俄罗斯报纸网9月28日报道】题:与“布拉瓦”如出一辙

俄罗斯第五代洲际弹道导弹的试射以失败告终。实际上,有关新型导弹的消息透露得还很少。

2011年3月,莫斯科热工技术研究所总设计师尤里·所罗门诺夫向记者透露,为俄战略火箭部队研制的新型导弹将于2013年完成设计。他表示:“我们正在继续为战略导弹部队设计新型导弹系统,已有得到国防部认可的解决方案。具体内容我无法透露,但作战指挥和通信设备的可靠性将大幅提高。我们计划在2013年以前研制出新导弹。”

这可能指的是代号为“先锋”的洲际导弹,因为国防部长阿纳托利·谢尔久科夫今年7月曾说:“与前五年相比,在2011-2015年,战略导弹部队接收的‘白杨-M’、‘亚尔斯’和‘先锋’导弹的数量将增加两倍。”

社会政治研究中心主任弗拉基米尔·叶夫谢耶夫推测,试射的导弹可能为PC-24“亚尔斯”固体燃料导弹的改进型。他说:“这未必是一种全新导弹,很可能是PC-24固体燃料导弹的改进型,携带分弹头。显然,导弹将获得新的突防手段。”叶夫谢耶夫指出,由于导弹是从移动发射装置上发射,新导弹不可能是重型导弹。他认为:“根据种种迹象判断,这可能是战斗部重量增至1.5吨、射程达到1万至1.1万公里的‘白杨-M’或者‘亚尔斯’导弹,可以确保导弹装有包括战斗部和突防装置在内的六个单元。”叶夫谢耶夫说,“亚尔斯”导弹性能的提高可能源于导弹推进器的改进或者使用了更高效的燃料,“如此一来,导弹就有可能增加投掷重量,加装突破反导防御的装置,如假弹头等”。

点评

报道中所谓的“自带推进器”应该也是某种姿控系统吧。末端加速的话,反而还得加厚隔热层  发表于 2011-10-2 12:34
 楼主| kktt 发表于 2011-10-2 10:13 | 显示全部楼层
Kurier重生?

http://www.vedomosti.ru/newspaper/article/2011/09/29/268279

Новая ракета имеет небольшие размеры, что затрудняет обнаружение пусковых установок и тем самым повышает боевую устойчивость РВСН в условиях развертывания ПРО, говорит источник в ракетной промышленности.
JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2011-10-2 10:53 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 JSTCVW09CD 于 2011-10-2 10:55 编辑

courier 信使?


在哈萨克斯坦的试验场发射过一次的那个么?
haojiang77 发表于 2011-10-2 16:01 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 haojiang77 于 2011-10-2 16:09 编辑
g6-52l 发表于 2011-9-30 23:59
冷战期间的诸多计划先不提,冷战结束20年来,美国NASA、空军、海军、DARPA在高超音速飞行的计划有十多个, ...


毛子的超然飞行实验几乎全部是在冷战结束后进行的,要说计划,现在统计出来的毛子计划也很多,要说飞行试验冷计划(证实过)和IGLA计划(未经证实)先后进行实验,至于地面实验那就不用说了。09年亚历山大司机兵说这方面已经不差钱了,这不是最近面向实用的冷2计划和与阿三合作布拉莫斯2计划也在进行吗。
haojiang77 发表于 2011-10-2 16:12 | 显示全部楼层
g6-52l 发表于 2011-10-1 00:06
战略导弹与运载火箭很久以前就分道扬镳了,用途不同,细节就不同。别的不说,液体战略导弹要求至少以月为 ...

俺可是听说玛卡耶夫要搞成通用滴
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