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MIRV技术漫谈

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speed 发表于 2009-10-25 19:04 | 显示全部楼层


现有的已装备的31A可能都是单弹头,但是还不能排除31A具备携带多弹头的能力。


我觉得31A可能类似于毛子的白杨M,大部分情况下都是携带单弹头,但是如果需要马上也可以换成多弹头。
speed 发表于 2009-10-25 19:08 | 显示全部楼层
31A的末修舱布置和31是一样的,具体来源就不说了吧

kktt 发表于 2009-10-25 19:03


潜地导弹的末修舱也是放在三级发动机的尾部,但是从潜地导弹的设计来看,是否具备MIRV能力还不能从末修舱的布置方式来判断。
 楼主| kktt 发表于 2009-10-25 19:10 | 显示全部楼层
31A是否要发展多弹头,关键因素是两个:1,能否保证射程;2,在弹头数不变的前提下是否有利于突防。

我个人认为,1,不一定能保证(还要考虑PBV和突防舱的重量);2,如不增加弹头数,不如给单弹头提供更好的突防措施,这样更有利于突防。
speed 发表于 2009-10-25 19:40 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 speed 于 2009-10-25 19:43 编辑
31A是否要发展多弹头,关键因素是两个:1,能否保证射程;2,在弹头数不变的前提下是否有利于突防。

我个 ...

kktt 发表于 2009-10-25 19:10


投掷质量好像很难说清楚,民兵3的投掷质量大概是1000KG左右,不过3个MK12载具加上W78核装置的重量就基本上是1000KG了,剩下的PBV和仪器舱的质量到底是多少,没看到相关的数据。


所以我觉得投掷质量可能仅仅只包含弹头加上突防设备的重量,PBV和仪器舱的质量不能算进投掷质量中。
 楼主| kktt 发表于 2009-10-25 19:46 | 显示全部楼层
一般常说的投掷重量中是包括PBV和突防装置的重量的,大约占1/3~1/2

比如SS-24的投掷重量是4t,包括10个子弹头。外界的估计是每个弹头重约4000/2/10=200kg
speed 发表于 2009-10-25 20:02 | 显示全部楼层
一般常说的投掷重量中是包括PBV和突防装置的重量的,大约占1/3~1/2

比如SS-24的投掷重量是4t,包括10个子 ...
kktt 发表于 2009-10-25 19:46



那潜基战略导弹怎么算?


PBV都套在三级发动机上了,要是连3级发动机的结构质量一起算进去的话,那岂不是要占到整个投掷质量的三分之二去了?
 楼主| kktt 发表于 2009-10-25 20:13 | 显示全部楼层
投掷重量指的是除去发动机和燃料外的所有东西的重量

Throw-weight is a measure of the effective weight of ballistic missile payloads. It is measured in kilograms or metric tons. Throw-weight equals the total weight of a missile's warheads, reentry vehicles, self-contained dispensing mechanisms, penetration aids, and guidance systems — generally all components except for the launch rocket booster and launch fuel.
Throw-weight was used as a criterion in classifying different types of missiles during Strategic Arms Limitation Talks between the Soviet Union and the United States.[1]

References

1 James John Tritten, Throw-Weight and Arms Control, Air University Review, Nov-Dec 1982.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throw-weight
speed 发表于 2009-10-25 20:22 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 speed 于 2009-10-25 20:32 编辑

上面这篇文章感觉还是有些问题,如果投掷质量要连载台一起算进去的话,那么三级发动机的结构质量就不可能忽略不计。

美国各种洲际导弹的投掷质量与其最大可携带的弹头数和弹头质量的数据都吻合的很好,假如在STARTIII中,美国人的三叉戟D5的投掷质量定为2800KG,而俄罗斯的布拉瓦的投掷质量定为1150KG,如果再减去载台的质量,实际的投掷质量还要减半,俄罗斯不可能干这么吃亏的事情。
speed 发表于 2009-10-25 20:27 | 显示全部楼层
我觉得投掷质量应该只包括有效载荷,非有效载荷不能算进投掷质量中。
=======================================
第一部分

一、能把500千克以上有效载荷投掷到300千米以上的完整弹道导弹、运载火箭、探空火箭、巡航导弹和无人驾驶航空飞行器,以及为其专门设计的生产设施。

http://www.china.com.cn/law/flfg ... content_7060035.htm
 楼主| kktt 发表于 2009-10-25 20:37 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 kktt 于 2010-1-24 02:57 编辑

简单地说,对于单弹头导弹,就是弹头(及其突防装置);对于多弹头导弹,还要包括PBV

http://www.dod.mil/acq/acic/trea ... ls/throw_weight.htm

START I: Protocol on ICBM and SLBM Throw-Weight
TC Home > Treaties > START I Treaty > Throw-Weight Protocol
START I Treaty Protocol on ICBM and SLBM Throw-Weight Relating to the Treaty between the United States of America and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics on the Reduction and Limitation of Strategic Offensive Arms

Pursuant to and in implementation of the Treaty Between the United States of America and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics on the Reduction and Limitation of Strategic Offensive Arms, herein after referred to as the Treaty, the Parties hereby agree upon procedures governing the determination and accountability of ICBM and SLBM throw-weight.

I. Determination and Accountability of ICBM and SLBM Throw-weight

1. The throw-weight demonstrated in a flight test of an ICBM or SLBM shall be:

(a) for an ICBM or SLBM the final stage of which executes a procedure for dispensing reentry vehicles, the aggregate weight of that stage including its propellant and elements not separated from the stage, at the time at which the first release of a reentry vehicle or penetration aid occurs, and its payload;

(b) for an ICBM or SLBM that is not an ICBM or SLBM the final stage of which executes a procedure for dispensing reentry vehicles, the weight of the payload of the final stage or final stages.

2. For each ICBM or SLBM of an existing type, the accountable throw-weight shall be the greatest throw-weight demonstrated in flight tests of an ICBM or SLBM of that type.

3. For each ICBM or SLBM of a new type, the accountable throw-weight shall be the greatest throw-weight demonstrated in flight tests of an ICBM or SLBM of that type, which shall be determined subject to the following provisions:

(a) The greatest throw-weight demonstrated in flight tests of an ICBM or SLBM of a new type shall be no less than the maximum calculated throw-weight that an ICBM or SLBM of that type could deliver to a distance of 11,000 kilometers for ICBMs, or to a distance of 9500 kilometers for SLBMs.

(b) None of the first seven flight tests shall be taken into account in determining the greatest throw-weight demonstrated in flight tests of an ICBM or SLBM of a new type unless the throw-weight demonstrated in such a flight test exceeds the greatest throw-weight demonstrated in subsequent flight tests by more than 20 percent or 250 kilograms, whichever is less, prior to an ICBM or SLBM of that type becoming subject to the limitations provided for in Article II of the Treaty.

4. The maximum calculated throw-weight that an ICBM or SLBM of a new type could deliver to a particular distance shall be calculated by the Party developing such a missile using its own methods of calculation, subject to the following conditions:

(a) the distance to which the throw-weight is delivered shall be measured along the projection of the missile's flight trajectory on the Earth's surface between the launch point and the point that a reentry vehicle that is released immediately after termination of the main engine thrust of the final stage is projected to impact the Earth;

(b) a spherical, non-rotating Earth;

(c) a vacuum ballistic trajectory for the reentry vehicle;

(d) a full propellant load for each stage; and

(e) the residual propellant in each stage shall not be greater than one percent for solid-propellant ICBMs or SLBMs, or two percent for liquid-propellant ICBMs or SLBMs.

5. Each Party undertakes not to increase the accountable throw-weight of an ICBM or SLBM of an existing type, as determined in accordance with paragraph 2 of this Section, by more than 21 percent of its initial accountable throw-weight.

6. Notifications concerning data on throw-weight of ICBMs or SLBMs in connection with this Protocol shall be provided in accordance with Section III of the Notification Protocol. Throw-weight values, measured in kilograms, shall be specified to the nearest value evenly divisible by 50.

7. In the event of a dispute concerning the initial value of accountable throw-weight of an ICBM or SLBM of a new type, or an increased value of accountable throw-weight of an ICBM or SLBM of an existing or new type, specified in a notification provided in accordance with Section III of the Notification Protocol, the accountable throw-weight shall be the value specified in such notification until such dispute is resolved in the Joint Compliance and Inspection Commission.

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II. Verification

1. Verification of compliance with provisions of this Protocol shall be by national technical means of verification.

2. To facilitate verification, for an ICBM and SLBM of each new type, two preannounced flight tests shall be conducted either in the 12-month period prior to an ICBM or SLBM of that type becoming subject to the limitations provided for in Article II of the Treaty, or from among the last five flight tests prior to an ICBM or SLBM of that type becoming subject to the limitations provided for in Article II of the Treaty.

3. No more than one pre-announced flight test of an ICBM or SLBM shall be conducted pursuant to paragraph 2 of this Section in any 30-day period.

This Protocol is an integral part of the Treaty and shall enter into force on the date of entry into force of the Treaty and shall remain in force so long as the Treaty remains in force. As provided for in subparagraph (b) of Article XV of the Treaty, the Parties may agree upon such additional measures as may be necessary to improve the viability and effectiveness of the Treaty. The Parties agree that, if it becomes necessary to make changes in this Protocol that do not affect substantive rights or obligations under the Treaty, they shall use the Joint Compliance and Inspection Commission to reach agreement on such changes, without resorting to the procedure for making amendments set forth in Article XVIII of the Treaty.

Done at Moscow on July 31, 1991, in two copies, each in the English and Russian languages, both texts being equally authentic.

FOR THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA:
George Bush
President of the United States of America

FOR THE UNION OF SOVIET SOCIALIST REPUBLICS:
M. Gorbachev
President of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
speed 发表于 2009-10-25 20:52 | 显示全部楼层
START I: Protocol on ICBM and SLBM Throw-Weight
TC Home > Treaties > START I Treaty > Throw-Wei ...

kktt 发表于 2009-10-25 20:37


看了一下START I里面对投掷重量的定义,应该是不包括这些仪器舱和最后一级的重量。


http://www.fas.org/nuke/control/start1/text/aba-26-0.htm


SECTION I - DETERMINATION AND ACCOUNTABILITY OF ICBM AND SLBM THROW-WEIGHT 

Section I, consisting of seven paragraphs, sets forth the procedures for determining the accountable throw-weight for existing and new types of ICBMs and SLBMs. Procedures for notification of throw-weight data and resolution of disputes on throw-weight are also provided. 

Paragraph 1 consists of two subparagraphs that set forth rules for determining the throw-weight of ICBMs or SLBMs demonstrated during flight tests. These rules are based on two distinct missile design types: those that carry more than one reentry vehicle (RV) and dispense them from the final stage (subparagraph a); and those that do not, i.e., those that carry more than one RV and dispense them from a self-contained dispensing mechanism (commonly referred to as a post-boost vehicle) and those that carry only one RV and dispense it from either the final stage or a self-contained dispensing mechanism (subparagraph b).
 楼主| kktt 发表于 2009-10-25 20:54 | 显示全部楼层
看了一下START I里面对投掷重量的定义,应该是不包括这些仪器舱和最后一级的重量。


http://www.fa ...
speed 发表于 2009-10-25 20:52


对于单弹头导弹是不包括最后一级发动机的。对于多弹头导弹,PBV作为最后一级要包括的。仪器舱没明确说,算在发动机里了?
纸飞机 发表于 2009-10-29 21:01 | 显示全部楼层
对于单弹头导弹是不包括最后一级发动机的。对于多弹头导弹,PBV作为最后一级要包括的。仪器舱没明确说, ...
kktt 发表于 2009-10-25 20:54



    从这个图上看的话,仪器舱和发动机是装在一起的,应该包括在内吧

                               
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crbyt 发表于 2009-10-30 11:37 | 显示全部楼层
弱弱的问一句,PBV是什么?
 楼主| kktt 发表于 2009-10-30 16:05 | 显示全部楼层
post boost vehicle
 楼主| kktt 发表于 2009-12-10 18:04 | 显示全部楼层
7102厂职工正在型号线上忙碌

                               
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全力冲刺全年目标  
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  在型号部门,笔者了解到,目前他们正在认真梳理管理流程,根据年度计划分解,编制下发介于年度与月度计划间的季度计划,将工艺技术、质量、物料等准备与生产计划有机结合,明确各型号生产的进度节点、任务要求。
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  各车间也迎来了全年生产任务的高峰期。承担着总装任务的20车间员工们分成两班从早到晚连续作业。笔者来到这里时,正赶上加班饭送到,但笔者发现,此时并没有人马上放下手中的工作。
  第一事业部总装车间正投入某重点产品紧张繁忙的测试工作。笔者来到这里时,正赶上员工们与设计师们一起埋头在复杂的线路图中,“剥离”可能引起故障的关键点。笔者了解到,一个个灯火通明的夜晚,他们都是在型号研制现场度过的。
  与此同时,各车间也坚持“劳逸结合,确保健康,干好工作”的理念,合理调控加班节奏,车间领导和安全员随时巡查,确保大家以充沛的精力和愉快的心情投入工作。(陈南竹)

http://www.spacechina.com/xwzx_zhxw_Details.shtml?recno=63871
shaolin1254 发表于 2009-12-10 18:53 | 显示全部楼层
全员奋战保生产



                               
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     进入今年四季度以来,面对国家重点型号、自研型号、配套协作以及特种装备几大板块齐头并进、交叉进行的艰巨生产任务,7102厂全员奋战,紧张冲刺全年目标任务。图为该厂铆焊车间员工奋战箱体壳段任务。 陈南竹 摄文
 楼主| kktt 发表于 2010-1-24 03:01 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 kktt 于 2010-1-24 03:05 编辑

毛子独特的倒置MIRV布局:

P-29P.jpg
P-29PM.jpg
P-39.jpg
pighead~o~ 发表于 2010-1-24 13:13 | 显示全部楼层
如果31a还是单弹头的话搞个整流罩有什么用,直接学31把弹头顶在头上就行了~~~~pbv又不一定要单独做,完全可以做在第3级尾部
 楼主| kktt 发表于 2010-1-25 09:31 | 显示全部楼层
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